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Ghosts Chance
Inf4m0us
831
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Posted - 2014.01.19 03:56:00 -
[1] - Quote
so it seems that people keep compairing the plasma rifle to the regular varients of the scrambler/combat/rail rifles and it shows very little understanding of how the weapons are all designed to mesh together.
the gallante plasma rifle is meant to be the king of the "assault" varients.
so with THAT in mind how does the duvolle stack up against the assault varients of the other rifles?
from my experiance it does feel like it holds this place, but the assault combat rifle feels like its nipping at its heals.
i personally have always hated the gallante rifle and so im not the best persont o be compairing it so i was looking for input fromt he community specifically comapiring it to the other assault varients to get a feel of weather its really living up to being king of the assault varients like it is designed to be.
to me on the recieving end it certainly feels like the gallante rifle holds the advantage against the other assault varients but im not the best person to judge.
on a secondary note it seems the assault combat and scrambler rifles are massivly outclassed by their regular variants due to the ROF being the same but both having higher damage then their assault varients, perhaps this is the imbalance people are noticing? |
Ghosts Chance
Inf4m0us
837
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Posted - 2014.01.19 13:22:00 -
[2] - Quote
looking at things a little closer im starting to notice why that duvolle feels underpowered.
it seems to be balanced to be even relative to the other assault varients once you take into concideration their efficiany against shield/armor as well as range differences
so the problem with the plasma rifle apears to be that its balanced against other assault varients, but its breach/burst/tac varients are vastly underwhelming when compaired to the other rifles.
this creates a situation where the duvolle has no real advantage over any of the other rifles.
so the plasma rifle apears to have the problems of
-no advantage over the other "assault" weapons
-variants are underwhelming when compared to the other races weapons
so theres no real point in using or skilling into the plasma rifle right now as every other assault rifle comes with an "assault" variant that will perform the same as the plasma rifle, but also comes with the main rifle which outperforms the assaults in their own niche |
Ghosts Chance
Inf4m0us
839
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Posted - 2014.01.19 13:46:00 -
[3] - Quote
Yoma Carrim wrote:Ghosts Chance wrote:looking at things a little closer im starting to notice why that duvolle feels underpowered.
it seems to be balanced to be even relative to the other assault varients once you take into concideration their efficiany against shield/armor as well as range differences
so the problem with the plasma rifle apears to be that its balanced against other assault varients, but its breach/burst/tac varients are vastly underwhelming when compaired to the other rifles.
this creates a situation where the duvolle has no real advantage over any of the other rifles.
so the plasma rifle apears to have the problems of
-no advantage over the other "assault" weapons
-variants are underwhelming when compared to the other races weapons
so theres no real point in using or skilling into the plasma rifle right now as every other assault rifle comes with an "assault" variant that will perform the same as the plasma rifle, but also comes with the main rifle which outperforms the assaults in their own niche I would say a good change to the Plasma Rifle would be shortening its optimal, keep its current effective, and in exchange for a RPM boost and a slight increase to hipfire accuracy. Nothing too drastic we don't want it over tweaked in one direction or the other.
that was along my lines of thinking as well
it should have the shortest optimal but it should have no equal within that optimal making it the king of the assault varients as intended but still balanced and engageable if you have the advantage.
the rifle game is full of advantages and disadvantages as their balancing factors alowing each rifle to be able to gaint he upper hand against any of the others by capitalising on its strengths and not letting others use its weaknesses against it.
this seems to be the most reasonable way to give the plasma rifle its proper place without taking away the ability to counter it.
its alturnate verients (breach/burst/tac) could also probably use similar treatment, a damage boost but less range then their counterparts in the other races. |
Ghosts Chance
Inf4m0us
841
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Posted - 2014.01.19 14:05:00 -
[4] - Quote
Chunky Munkey wrote:Ghosts Chance wrote:so it seems that people keep compairing the plasma rifle to the regular varients of the scrambler/combat/rail rifles and it shows very little understanding of how the weapons are all designed to mesh together.
the gallante plasma rifle is meant to be the king of the "assault" varients.
so with THAT in mind how does the duvolle stack up against the assault varients of the other rifles?
from my experiance it does feel like it holds this place, but the assault combat rifle feels like its nipping at its heals.
i personally have always hated the gallante rifle and so im not the best persont o be compairing it so i was looking for input fromt he community specifically comapiring it to the other assault varients to get a feel of weather its really living up to being king of the assault varients like it is designed to be.
to me on the recieving end it certainly feels like the gallante rifle holds the advantage against the other assault varients but im not the best person to judge.
on a secondary note it seems the assault combat and scrambler rifles are massivly outclassed by their regular variants due to the ROF being the same but both having higher damage then their assault varients, perhaps this is the imbalance people are noticing? The AR is easily the best AR (semantics nightmare, this subject). The real problem is not other assault variants, but the respective defaults of the other rifles. I haven't seen any intelligent argument in favour of keeping those weapons as effective in CQC as they are now. Since the AR is meant to be the short-mid range rifle, it just doesn't compete.
the rail rifle is easy to outplay in cqc, its hipfire is a little too accurate still though.
the real issue is the regular combat and scramblers wich massivly out dps their assault varients in cqc without losing anything.
its a delecate balance that we havnt quite found yet, but the game is closer to the ideal of rifle balance now then it has been in the past.
all the "assault" varients need to be brought into their own as right now the regular rifles are stepping on their territory. |
Ghosts Chance
Inf4m0us
842
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Posted - 2014.01.19 14:57:00 -
[5] - Quote
Monkey MAC wrote:I find it hard to comment on the different rifles separately, the only one I notice much of a difference being shot at with is the CR purely because you can guess when the next burst comes.
I personally think ALL the rjfles are a little too powerful at the moment and require a chamge to damage, as positive it will make the differences between the rifles more obvious
with proficiancy being changed to only effect the efficiancy against shields or armor i think this will make things alot more evident, i hear talks about changes to damage mods as well but that will only effect those who use them.
with TTK being toned down and fights becoming a little longer it will make their strengths and weaknesses really stick out and become more obvious alowing people to make use of those strengths and weaknesses more effectivly.
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Ghosts Chance
Inf4m0us
842
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Posted - 2014.01.19 15:11:00 -
[6] - Quote
Mordecai Sanguine wrote:Jaysyn Larrisen wrote:I think you're spot on.
Honestly I think all 4 rifles are optimal in their niche roles. The plasma rifle was the only game in town for a long time and the SCR still absolutely hammers (I shield tank so I REALLY feel the SCR). With the CR and RR things even out.
I think if anything they might need to increase the RoF slightly and extend the optimal range for the Plasma rifle a slight bit. Other than that I think all the rifles are dead on for their intended purpose.
Admittedly, it's very hard for me to judge the "OP" factor on all these weapons since you have have to factor in player skill, amount of SP into the specific weapon, and situation of the engagement. I've seen plenty of BPO ARs take down Proto and ADV guys.
My point on the rifles is and will remain that player skill is the over riding factor. I struggle with single shot or burst weapons on the DS3 since i have an average gun game, therefore, I used to use the ASCR pretty heavily before the RR was introduced. The RR is right up my ally with staying mid to long range, flanking, and shield tanking. I can tell you that in a one on one with a Duvolle my Rail is at a real disadvantage.
I think the biggest overlap in the base rifles is the CR and SCR at mid-range. The AR outclasses the ARR and ASCR but I do think the ACR might be pretty even based on the uber-level ROF.
Optimal at their niche role ? AR niche role : Under 60 meters and have anyhting else than rifle.. CR niche role : Everything that is not a Tank. SCR : Everything that is under 500 ehp. RR : everything that is under 100 meters. That's maybe the problem. Rifles are balanced each others. But not with dropsuits and with ALL the others weapon. A Damn plasma cannon or swarms lauchers which is to destroy tanks have less DPS than a rifle....... Missiles : 220hp. => Need to lock. Loaded SCR : 200hp. => 4 sec to shot. => But overheat and others drawbakcs. 2 burst of CR : 192ehp => Less than 0.5 sec. Yeah Cr is TOTAAAAAAALLY balanced 
alright im going to stop you there... did you just try to balance assault rifles against AV weaponry?
they dont even have the same targets... cant literally cant compaire them to each other.
also dropsuits arnt weapons... and so you cant balance them against weapons outside of time to kill wich is activly being worked on and improving across the board.
specialist wepaons are specialist weapons LR/MD/SG/SR are amazing at what they do but arnt the all rounders that the rifles are and thats by design and working as intended.
sidearms are sidearms... so dont even try that one |
Ghosts Chance
Inf4m0us
842
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Posted - 2014.01.19 15:19:00 -
[7] - Quote
iceyburnz wrote:I have to ask: how do you know what the Plasma Assault is meant to be?
As far as I know its the high damage, low range rifle, how is that the king?
Im not trying to troll its a genuine question.
its the original assault varient its native basic state is that of the "assault" varient
from that we can determin that the plasma rifle puts the "assault" varient ahead of any other function unlike the other races wich have the "assault" varients as sidegrades as you skill up into them.
gallante is meant to be the lowest range but the hardest hitting , they are close range brawlers by design
the plasma rifle is meant to outclass the assault varients of the other races within its optimal range leaving the other rifles to try to work around not wanting to face tank a duvolle while they try to down the wielder.
most of this is me extrapolating intent from the sources that CCP has provided in addition to looking at the weapons and how they interact with each other.
it currently is the best out of the "assault" varients within its optimal, but just barely. in addition to that the non assault varients outclass the assaults in cqc due to their higher dps/rof/accuracy.
its by no means concrete evidence but currently thats just how it plays out in the game so if it makes it easyer put a question mark behind the statement.
"is the plasma rifle meant to be the king of the "assault" varients?"
from my experiance and the data suggests is that it is indeed meant to fill that role, but other issues are preventing it from actually taking the crown. |
Ghosts Chance
Inf4m0us
842
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Posted - 2014.01.19 15:21:00 -
[8] - Quote
Monkey MAC wrote:Ghosts Chance wrote:Mordecai Sanguine wrote:Jaysyn Larrisen wrote:I think you're spot on.
Honestly I think all 4 rifles are optimal in their niche roles. The plasma rifle was the only game in town for a long time and the SCR still absolutely hammers (I shield tank so I REALLY feel the SCR). With the CR and RR things even out.
I think if anything they might need to increase the RoF slightly and extend the optimal range for the Plasma rifle a slight bit. Other than that I think all the rifles are dead on for their intended purpose.
Admittedly, it's very hard for me to judge the "OP" factor on all these weapons since you have have to factor in player skill, amount of SP into the specific weapon, and situation of the engagement. I've seen plenty of BPO ARs take down Proto and ADV guys.
My point on the rifles is and will remain that player skill is the over riding factor. I struggle with single shot or burst weapons on the DS3 since i have an average gun game, therefore, I used to use the ASCR pretty heavily before the RR was introduced. The RR is right up my ally with staying mid to long range, flanking, and shield tanking. I can tell you that in a one on one with a Duvolle my Rail is at a real disadvantage.
I think the biggest overlap in the base rifles is the CR and SCR at mid-range. The AR outclasses the ARR and ASCR but I do think the ACR might be pretty even based on the uber-level ROF.
Optimal at their niche role ? AR niche role : Under 60 meters and have anyhting else than rifle.. CR niche role : Everything that is not a Tank. SCR : Everything that is under 500 ehp. RR : everything that is under 100 meters. That's maybe the problem. Rifles are balanced each others. But not with dropsuits and with ALL the others weapon. A Damn plasma cannon or swarms lauchers which is to destroy tanks have less DPS than a rifle....... Missiles : 220hp. => Need to lock. Loaded SCR : 200hp. => 4 sec to shot. => But overheat and others drawbakcs. 2 burst of CR : 192ehp => Less than 0.5 sec. Yeah Cr is TOTAAAAAAALLY balanced alright im going to stop you there... did you just try to balance assault rifles against AV weaponry? they dont even have the same targets... cant literally cant compaire them to each other. also dropsuits arnt weapons... and so you cant balance them against weapons outside of time to kill wich is activly being worked on and improving across the board. specialist wepaons are specialist weapons LR/MD/SG/SR are amazing at what they do but arnt the all rounders that the rifles are and thats by design and working as intended. sidearms are sidearms... so dont even try that one I would have said specalist weapons need a buff, especially the shotgun. Laser Rifle pales in comparison to the Racial Rifles, needs a much longer range say optimal of 130-140m make more a Sniper Rifle Mass Driver is good, but need more spare ammo capacity Sniper Rifle is weak, needs a lower ROF high Damage per shot.
laser rifle is getting a hotfix before 1.8
mass driver DOES NOT need more ammo
sniper rifles are working as intended
shotguns need more hit detection fixes but their damage is fine
so you really had nothing when you claimed them to be imbalanced against other weapons.... |
Ghosts Chance
Inf4m0us
842
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Posted - 2014.01.19 16:14:00 -
[9] - Quote
dont forget we have a rather armor heavy metagame at the moment giving the advantage to the combat rifle due to the sheer utility of being able to eat armor faster.
it is screwing things a tad in favor of the ACR |
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